Category: Let's talk
Hello all. I believe the new point structure absolutely stinks, especially for those of us who are premium members. Since we've paid to be on the site when we didn't have to, our points should not be randomly taken away. I think we have a reasonable expectation that the perks we enjoy as premium members should remain. Would any other site take away such priveleges without at least getting input from its paid members?
Eddie Salcido
Okay. Firstly, the premium perks we get for points still remain, that being that premium members still have higher betting limits in most games, plus pot taking in trivia. Secondly, those points weren't exactly taken away. True, we can't use them, but then they were pretty useless before anyway. This way makes it fairer for more recent members, who have joined since the top 20 in the overall ranks was way out of reach. It's a good system...maybe not perfect yet, but surely better than before. That's my opinion.
I'm confused by your post. First you say that the points were pretty useless anyway but then you go on to say that it's unfair for people to be so far ahead in rank. So which is it? Secondly, the points were, in all practicality, taken away from us because we can't use them. I don't see the reasoning behind total versus useable points anyway. Why have a two-tierred point structure? It just makes things more confusing. Third and finally, those who pay for memberships should have more say regarding confiscation of points, fair or not. Life isn't about fairness and that has been demonstrated by the admins of this site who apparently disregard the fact that they are being financed by our premium memberships. While I fully comprehend that the coding takes a great deal of time and effort, I also assert that if you are going to offer premium memberships, you should create more value for those memberships. Summarily and arbitrarily taking points away from all members, especially premium members, in the name of some principle of fairness does not create value for the price I have paid.
Eddie
blah blah blah, pout boo hoo out oh did i mention waaa waaa boo hoo pout pout! blah blah blah. get over it. it's done.
"The points were, in all practicality, taken away from us because we can't use them." What could you use them for before? Instead of whinging, go earn your points back. You didn't have that much anyway, dunno what you're complaining about.
I use to give them away, play them games but, since my points was taken away I wouldn't really play anymore games. just now it will be snatched away without reason.
We're giving all of you the chance to vote on what should be done with points, and we'll go with the majority. Check the Points Vote link from the main page for all the details.
I think I would much rather have a smaller number of *useable* points and have the possibility of actually winning something of worth, rather than having 1200000 points that I can't really do anything with anyways. You can't use those points for anything, so this is quite literally bitching about nothing!
For all of you complaining that your points were taken away, get your heads out of your asses and remember how the system works. You have those points that are total which is a much larger number, but they give you a smaller number of those points to work with. I don't think this is a bad deal at all.
the only thing I think, and I've already mentioned this to Chris, is that there should still be ranks for total points. My 3000000000 points might mean something then, even if I can't actually use them. Just my thoughts again.
Hi Stevo. First of all, before my points were taken away, I had a hundred million or so. Secondly, I'd like to publicly thank Chris N for allowing us to vote on this issue. It means a great deal to me to know that my input is valued.
Eddie
Hi, all. Chris N, great solution to poll the Zone community regarding this issue. I have to say I don't understand why the difference between usable and total points, as all it seems to do is add clutter to profiles, and I hope the point structure returns to its previous state.
I'm kind of getting used to the new points system. At least something is being done with them.
No points were taken away, no points were taken away, no points were taken away, no points were taken away....shall i go on?
I believe that the point system should stay as it is right now, having usable and unusable points, although I really don't see the point on the unusable points except to keep track of where you stand for the total points. in any case, there is a point on having points now.
So what was your point in repeating yourself four times? For all practical purposes, points were taken away because you can't use them. Repeating yourself four times is not going to make me change my mind.
Eddie
so eddie let me get this straight, you'd rather have a bunch of points that are just there for the purpose of being there and nothing else vs. points that can be used to earn a free premium if you win the drawing? you make no sense. hell chris or jj, set poor eddie's points back to normal and he won't be eligible for shit since that is the way he wants it.
i'd like to say thank you to the admins and cl's for the new changes and making it possible to have a chance to win something with the points. great idea y'all and again thank you.
now, when i play games, i'm actually playing for a chance at something. makes a lot more sense to me.
also, it gives the non premiums that don't necessarily have the extra 25 dollars to spend on a membership a chance to win premium too.
thanks again guys. eddie get a clue and some respect and be thankful your points are worth something.
also being premium isn't just about points. premiums have many other features that non premiums do. so none of your rights have been taken away in my opinion. hell you've gained something. you are just entirely too ungrateful to open your selfish eyes and realize this.
Personally, I like the new system, but I have a question...Couple of them actually. First, is an individual going to have a choice on participating in drawings; like the free premium membership idea? I don't know many who'd turn that down, but say Liam decides to donate a free game...And someone isn't a gamer...Shouldn't each person have the option if their names are put in the pot? Secondly, say there is 10 names put in the pot because they have the requisit number of points...(for example sake let's say 1000000 are required)...And one person wins. Does the other 9 lose their points? If so, why? Shouldn't the person who one the free premium membership...(or what ever the prize is)...be the one to lose them? And maybe only take half the requisit points for not winning; IE gambling that your name will be drawn. I hope this all makes since...Does it? If not, I'll be glad to try and explain better.
Well I've never really cared much for points before. As a lot of you know, I've been trying desperately to get rid of the points I've acquired in the past. But knowing that I can actually win something with the points I have now gives me some interest in actually gaining more points. lol I only wish I could get rid of my other unusable points. *chuckles*
As for suggestions of what we could do with points, I was thinking maybe about suggesting a betting pool for the sports challenge. I mean we could put in an amount of points for each team we bet for; kind of like real gambling. So we're really playing against each other. For example, the super bowl is coming up and say I put in 10000 for the Patriots to win and someone else puts in 10000 for the Giants to win. If the Pats win, I'd be getting my points back as well as the person's points who voted for the losing team. Of course it would all have to be regulated as to how much you put in because if there are more people who bet, you'll actually have a better chance of winning or losing. But I just thought it would be fun to actually put in points when choosing your picks for the week. Any thoughts?
Michelle
Rofl Shea, I love your post.
I also like the betting idea for Sports Challenge.
Yep, having 12000000 points that you can't do anything with verses having only 1000 that you start off with and can accumulate more of to actually win something? If they kept the points as they were before, and wanted to give away actual prizes, the people with 50 bazillion points would always win. that is not fare to people who are just joining or just don't have enough money to get a premium account.
definitely, it was a big disappointment to find out that the 255000000 points I had were taken away.
Absolutely agree with Eddy, this shouldn't have been done without taking each zoner's opinion into consideration.
Ok to you guys who don't like this new point system, i figure you got 2 choices.
1. Vote for the old way to come back and you might get what you want.
and 2, just stop coming here and find somewhere else to hang out. I haven't seen this much bitching over nothing in quite some time.
Now there is a purpose to the points. I hope people vote for the new system.
personally i did not understand the new points system at first, but now that i understand it, i love it! u actually have the chance to win something with your points, verses them just accumulating and u earning nothing for them. so for those whiners, be greatful.
Ooh but they can't be greatful. they have to fucking whine about everything, because they don't have their precious, unusable points to do nothing with. and the really stupid thing is that if you look at a person's profile, both point designations are *clearly* shown right there for anyone who cares to look. fucking retards!
I just voted but thought that since there's a related discussion going on here, that I would explain my choice. I honestly don't understand the point of having 2 amounts of points, I mean like now we have our total points and then the ones we can use, right? But I actually like the older way better, where we just had the points that we earned, period. Of course, I still think the points should be usable, but I figure that's what the games are for, to gain or risk losing points. And then of course, there's also the choice of sharing/giving away your points as well. So yeah, I actually like the older points system better, but also that these points should all be usable. Just my opinion. *smile*
But see, the problem is that there are like a lot of people on here who have an unbelievably high number of points, and then you get a new person who just comes on and is new and everything, and then you have folks who have lower numbers of points and I think everyone should be included. So the only fare way was to get everyone on a somewhat equal playing field by setting everyone's points to a certin number and whatever points you accumulate after that, those are your usable points too. I don't know exactly what happens if you run out of points, can you dip into your unusable points and get a certain amount again? But either way, I can understand how someone would ask why the points were changed, i don't want to say removed because they weren't. Ah, whenever something changes around here, the whiners come out in full force. Like some cheese with that whine?
I dont really have anything to say about this, I'm not on the site enough anymore for it to matter.
But I do think that it is cool to have a way to use the points, now.
What I want to know, though, is if you have these 1000 usable points, that we all started out with, and you play a bunch of games, and win more "useable" points, and get wayyyy back up there, like you were before, (for those who spend forever and a day on the site this wouldnt be difficult), how is this still "keeping it fair for the newcomers"?
I guess my question is, are our points going to be reset regularly enough to "keep it fair"?
Or is this "keeping it fair" thing just this one time, so that we can all start out on an even footing with "useable points"?
I mean, it's not like they'll be giving away premium memberships once a week, or whatever, so...
*shrugs confusedly...*
Amber
I voted for the old system to come back, but only because you can keep better track of points that way, and not worry about what points went where. Personally, I try to give mine away, cause I hardly ever play the games, so really they aren't any use to me most of the time. It's only once in a while I do play the games, but then I loose anyway. So, all you people who want to sit and cry over your points being taken away, get a grip and face it that the system will probablly not go back to the way it was, and before I get "so why vote that way if at all", I did it cause I was bord, and I have a right to.
Hello Tunehead. I understand your strong feelings on this matter and realize that you have a right to express them in any way you choose. However, I wonder how your profanity-laced invectives make your case any stronger. I expressed an opinion; I didn't wine. I hope that in the future, your dialogue will be more intelligent.
Eddie
No, if you get yourself down to 0 usable points, you cannot dip into your total points. That's why I don't see the purpose in even showing total points. All it shows is your stat before the change was made. I've given away more points in the last two days, to those whose points were reset, than I ever have. As far as this board, it's discussion for discussion's sake now. The admins have come up with a good way to solve this, and the vote will speak for itself in the end. I do hope though, that if the new points system stays around, they'll just show one set of points. Cleans up the profile a bit.
Tunehead, you act like you've been personally insulted by this discussion. Most people on here who disagree with Eddie have been able to keep it reasonable, except you. And as far as gratitude goes, I think all of us around here are grateful for all the admins and CL's do. God knows we all waste enough time on this site. So, to the admins and CL's, thank you. We may not always agree on stuff, but it doesn't mean we don't appreciate your hard work.
I'd like to add a couple of things here, which I forgot to mention in my previous post. Firstly, this new point system is going to make cheaters out of many of us. I personally have made it a point not to cheat on anagrams and so has another person that I know. However, she has cheated and I will do so in the future so I can get all of my points back. You'd better believe I will use every single advantage to accumulate what was taken away, especially now that there are prizes involved. Smiles. This brings me to my next point. All point contests and incentives are rendored absolutely meaningless with hi low. I'm sure it's an open secret but I'll expose it here. People can quickly accumulate points by playing this game and uping their bet periodically until they hit 500000. Also, you can hit the quit and play again with same bet link and never lose that many points. It's a low risk game with high rewards. So if the admins want to really make it fair, they will take away that link. Someone mentioned sitting on the zone all day and racking up points. Even under this new point structure and the way hi low is set up, it is still possible for zone addicts to gain the advantage. So has a level playing field really been reached in the end? Applied on a wider scale, this would be socialism/communism. With all that said, I agree with SisterDawn that the admins are doing a fabulous job in maintaining this site for all of us, probably at a large expense to themselves.
Eddie
Edie
If you choose to cheet, that's your thing, nothing any of us can do about that. I really don't see the need because eventually if this new system sticks, you'll have your points reset every so often so you'll just have more of those unusable points to deal with.
I guess to me, if you look at someone's profile, both point designations are clearly shown there, so if it's all about people seing the number of points you have, just remember that they're both shown in the profile viewer.
oh my gosh. if your points are really that big of a deal to you that you have to cheat. then you really need a life. And don't you think the admins and cl's are a bit smarter than that. you just said you were going to cheat on the anagams, they sure can watch and see if you get most of them and take the points for that cheating day. i mean you just admited it. hehehe freak show.!
all i have to say is. damn straight!
I also think that the new points sistem is more fair if we are going to use the points for wining things. I voted for it to stay as it is now.
I liked the old way
Nice, RainbowJess. Short, sweet, and to the point. *Grin*
Well, when I first logged in and saw that my points were reset it got under my skin. But now I like the fact the we can earn points and enter into a drawing for something such as a free premium membership. And I would hope that when, after the drawing, our points are once again reset, the points from that session will be added to our total points. I for one, like to check and see how many points I've accumulated over the years. Now I do have a question, if you are already a premium member, will you still be entered into a drawing for one? And if so, if you when, will that membership start when your current one expires?
As for the high-low, I don't see a problem with upping your bet as you accumulate points. I had a few thousand last night, and now I have around 70000000. It's not a matter of cheating, just having patience to play the game. But I cannot stand people who cheat at anagrams, but I'm not going to rehash that on this board. there have been people complaining for years about how the points are worthless, and now that they're trying to make them useful, people are complaining. I just want to say stop whining for God's sake! You're never going to make everyone happy, that's why I'm glad we're being given the opportunity to vote on it.
Ok, I'm done ranting. smile
I'd just like to say thank you to all the admins and CL's for trying to improve the zone.
Jen
I personally appreaeciate the hard work but I would rather have my points then been in any drawing. as I said I will not puschase another memvership[ and I hope the others I but them for will back me. we want rour points!!!
ok, but here's the question, why did the fact that all your points got reset get under your skin so much? Just curious really.
Oh wow! I don't kno if it was cause of what he wrote in his last post, but the blind cowboy has had his acount disabled. see! that's what you get if you do a stupid thing like that and so he should have had it done. Honestly, what a stupid thing to do. As if the cl's and admins weren't going to read it. lmfao! I only came on here to read the board, but when I saw that, it amused me. Anyway, whatever the end result is, we'll all just have to get used to the way the points are worked out.
Yes, everyone knows that you can use Hi-Lo to quickly accumulate points, it's really not that much of a secret. The thing is, any of the games (and points totals) are testament to how much time Zone users choose to dedicate to games, and there's no sense bitching about the fact that X has 37 squindillion points because they obviously have the inclination (and skill/luck) to hang out here all the time.
For example I only discovered the new system today, but cos I had a bit of time on my hands I was able to chalk up 200 million on hi-lo in about 90 minutes. That wont happen oFten though, cos I have things to do (and I happen to like the idea of a continual supply of heat and light, which needs paying for lol). So, if you don't like It, get competitive, win some points and show off if it makes you feel better. I wont be voting as it doesn't matter either way (voting to abstain? *chortle*) but as long as thE benefits of Premium membership remain tangible, there is fair warning when draws/resets are going to happen and the winners can be from a broad selection then it's all good!
One thing though; this is going to fuck with the Quicknotes Quiz though lol
Maybe if the points are important to us, we need to come up with creative ways of earning them from each other? For example, I'll be your friend with benefts for 10 million *grin*
hehehehe dusty how do i cash in on that?
Fuck me Blah, I only just refreshed from posting, and you'd already replied! I Only hope your digital dexterity extends to other areas ...
guess you'll have to come find out for yourself now won't you. and that's blah cubed dammit
Dusty and Pipi, you guys make me laugh.
Lioness Liz, Eddie's account got disabled for reasons other than the points controversy. LOL. I admit, the timing of that was interesting, and the irony is not lost on either of us. But it has to do with other things than this.
now now u 2, get a room hehehehe.
Alright, time for me to chime in. First of all. the old points were accumulated in large quantities because there was not a betting limit for a time. So I like how it was reset to an even playing field. ah, but was it? In a few days there were three people that have over a billion points. Now I play high low quite a lot and it took about 2 weeks to get to one billion points. So, my guess is that trivia is the way that they got so much, so fast. Almost like they have all of the answers. hmmmm.
Hangman and anagram gives much lower points per game. Is that fair? Should the brainwork of anagrams be worth much less than having all of the trivia answers in your head or at your fingertips? Or if you like playing blackjack, I have the most points ever won at the game, 10 million. That doesn't even scratch the surface of a high point total. and if one of these people who get 3 billion in less than a week want to transfer huge amounts of points to a non premium, just so that person can get a chance at a free membership, how fair is that?
In summary, I like an even playing field and prizes for things. There is a better way. There could be a blackjack tourney where the person that wins the most in a given amount of time gets something. or one for another game, as long as there is no unfair advantage for a select few.
My hats off to the admins and cl's. Keep trying to improve things.
Post 39 is correct. We haven't come up with all the details for future drawings, but in the most recent one everyone with over a billion points was entered. In the past, if a premium member has won a drawing and requested it, we've transfered that membership to a new member of their choice. We may or may not do this in the future.
post 42, The Blind Cowboy was disabled because of a terms of service violation having nothing to do with the current topic.
post 43, the Vote to Abstain option is mostly meant to catch people who just click the Cast Vote button without making a definite selection. Also, PM me with any ideas you have on the Quicknote Quiz idea. I'd like to see that continue.
I honestly don't see what the big deal is. In the time that I have been a Zone member, people have constantly complained that the points seemed to be useless, and they wanted something to be done with them. Now that the admins are giving us that chance, there are some who still aren't happy. Personally, I have voted to keep the new points structure. Accumulating points really isn't all that hard, especially if you are a premium member. As someone else mentioned, there are those who have already accumulated over one billion points. I think that the new system will be much better. We have the opportunity to use our points for something, and it will be done in a way that is fair to both old and new users.
I was just thinking about what I said in my previous post, and I decided to add something. At the end of my post, I said that the new points structure will be done in a way that is fair to both old and new users, but in actual reality, premium members still have an advantage. We have the privilege of betting more points in hi-lo, as well as receiving any points that are in the pots in trivia. So, I really don't understand why any of the premium members would be so against the new system.
I guess at the end of the day there has to be an advantage for premium members, after all they're the ones who are paying to keep the site going. I just think that it wouldn't matter so much if a draw for free premium membership could only include standard members - say, the highest ranked standard member, or five highest ranked standard members won free membership, even if they didn't have a billion points - because let's face it, the only way a standard member can get that much is if they had most of their points transfered to them. There's a lot more that can be done with this new system, so I hope it goes through.
then maybe there should be a drawing for standard members for a premium membership, and a separate drawing for those who are already premium, for something like a gift certificate to amazone or something. Just a suggestion
(I composed this paragraph a while back. It took some doing to figure out how to post it.) ________________________________________________________________________When I discovered that my point-ranking had dropped from 55 to 392, I was dismayed. It was a blow to my ego; I had lost my bragging rights. I promptly voted to go back to the old system. I now wish that I had not acted so hastily. In two days of playing (a few hours a day), I have achieved a rank of 62, and envision the real probability of moving up into the really high (or is it low?) ranks. I suggest that you try the new system before voting against it.
Lehto
Mystic Rain: Cuz, you know, we're all overflowing with money to donate towards that end, yes?
A gift certificate requires someone to sponssor it. I don't know if you've noticed this, but the Zone isn't a for-profit site. Premium memberships should be considered donations, not a title to anything extreme. Unless you'd like to donate the money towards such a prize, of course.
I'd sincerely love to sound off against all you people who have been ranting and raving against the new changes, as if your life depended on the bloody Zone, or that you'd invested thousands of dollars into the site, and therefore deserved a say-so in every decision made by the administrators. I'll fight the urge, though, in an effort to not offend people.
Kai
No need to get snippy kai, it was just a suggestion, and I wasn't meaning a big one. Maybe 15 dollars taken out of the funds from the payments of the premium memberships. And not having the drawing every month. More like twice a year.
Jen
Technically we are a for-profit site, just perhaps with a not-for-profit look.
How about if we had a drawing for a sex toy? heheheh Then I could win it without my man saying anything to the contrary. lol For those of you who don't know, my Sweet Love doesn't want me getting one. hehehehehe
And I actually don't mind contributing at all to prizes. I mean if we all donated about 5 dollars towards a prize, I'm sure it won't hurt our pockets too much. I'm willing anyway. It would be kind of cool to actually win things. I mean say we contribute to a bluetooth headset. I think I saw one for 20 dollars on that bargains page once. But that's what I mean. Simple things. It's always fun to win. lol Even if it means contributing a little for it. heheheh Just my thoughts...
Michelle
I voted, but which way only the admins and CLs know, I will say this much. I liked bragging about my points but I also like the fact they have meaning now. So let me suggest this, I think if you run out of usuable points you should be able to draw 1000 from your total points.
Flying Phoenix, I like your idea. That would make the total points have some use.
If you're going to be allowed to draw from your total points there shoud be some charge or tax, otherwise the advantage returns to those who clocked up the most before the new system came in.
Oh, and remember in post 43 when I said we need to think of creative ways of earning points from each other? Everybody, say hello to our newest Princess rotflmao
He's such a points-whore ...
and it cost me a hell of a lot of points too. hehehe hmmmm how can i earn points now....
Lmfao Dusty.
I like this system, but I didn't vote, the only problem i see is that there is no way a standard member can get one billion points because we can only bet 10000 points on the games. if it was raised to maybe 500000 for standard members and 1000000 for premium then maybe we stand a chance. The premiums get all the advantage now because they can vote that high. you do the math and 10000 goes into 1000000000 100000 times.if you were to play high low, 25 times a day it would take almost 11 years to get 1000000000 points. if you played 100 games a day it would take you 2.5 years. do you see what I'm getting at. it would take a rediculious amount of time for a standard member to get 1000000000 points.
don't get me wrong, I like the system but it really needs to be changed, if you know what I mean!
well that's why I made the suggestion about having two separate drawings. One for the standard members and one for the premium members.
Hmm, allow one to bet a certain percent of their usable points? IE, standard can bet up to 10% and premium 20%? Just a thought...*smile* I do fully see what your getting at with that one...Post 65.
No matter what points structure stays or goes, the advantage will always be to the ones who rack up the most points, however they choose to do it. That part doesn't change.
I agree with Sweet Sacrifice. It is much, much harder for a standard member to gain points. Even if we keep the new points system, more than likely, a premium member is goign to win whatever prize the admins choose to give out.
We had a total of 277 votes. This included 156 people, 56.32%, who voted to leave the points system as is. We had 94 people, 33.94%, vote to return to the previous system. Finally 27 people, 9.75% of the total, voted to make no decision. We will stick with the current system. Thanks to those who voted for participating in this process.
Because.... You know, premiums shouldn't get any benefits for buying their memberships, right? Standard members and premium members should have equal opportunities, even though premium members have actually, *cough*, paid for their priveleges.
Anyone can log on to the site and create a bloody account. Not everyone will actualy throw money into the site. So how is it wrong that premiums get a bit of an advantage?
I do agree that maybe standard members should get a higher betting limit, maybe 50,000, but if you bring the bar up, you're basically saying: lets just invalidate the point of being premium, shall we?
I like Jen's suggestion about a two-tiered drawing. After all, standard members should be allowed a chance to win, too. If it takes them longer, all the premiums would end up being the majority of those in the pool. I'd say draw once for premiums who've reached the point requirements, and draw another for standard members who've done likewise.
In the end, I still think premiums should maintain an edge, if not a significant one, over standard members. Has anyone looked up the definition of premium?
Kai
Couldn't have said it better myself
Interesting we're all still saying these things. Anyone who has a problem with standard members not being able to win whatever prise the Admins choose to give out, just reread what I wrote in post 53.
That was the point that I was trying to make. Obviously, premium members are going to have an advantage, and we have the right to, since we do pay for those privileges, however, I still agree that the betting limit for standard members should be raised a little. I think fifty thousand is good. I just think that, if and when, there are drawings, the majority of people, if not all the people, are going to be premium members, and the standard users won't have a chance, unless they devote their entire days and nights to this site, trying to gain points.
Thanks for posting the results of the points vote, Chris N. I'm kind of surprised it wasn't posted as a Zone BBS bulletin when users first log in. But I'm glad you posted the results here.
I still think that the fair thing to do is have tournaments where standard and premium go against each other , head to head. the winner getting a prize. the value of points on each game is different, so if it's about large quantities of points, you are forced to play a game like high low verses stones or hangman. and it should be a game that there can't be cheating.